Category Archives: Religion

Jesus baptism and paedobaptism

.

INTRODUCTION

Today at Mass John 1,29-34 is read   (Italian version: Gv 1,29-34 )

It reminded my about Jesus baptism that was celebrated on Monday. I decided to take a pause from my math Fourier studies and writing.

This is a update of a post i published January 13 2019.

January 13 the Catholic Mass read about Jesus baptism 30 years old. Jesus baptism has been discussed since the begining of Christianity.

“Baptists—and “Bible churches” in the Baptist tradition—insist that baptism is only for those who have come to faith. Nowhere in the New Testament, they point out, do we read of infants being baptized.” (Source:  www.catholic.com )

I wanted to baptice my childrens in my Catholic church but were not allowed to do that because I never went to mass at that time. We could have done that in the Protestant church but I and the mother decided that the childrens could do that as adults instead, like Jesus did. 

This post led me into a paradigm shift.

INDEX

.

The text

I do not add here the text of this Sunday but share texts that may refer to neonatal baptism.

Jesus about baptism

according to  Matthew  28:19 Jesus said after he arise from death:

Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,”

If this is a true testimonial or a invention from the apostle to justify paedobaptism, remain to be seen.

Matthew 3:13 says:

“03:13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John,
to be baptized by him. But John would have hindered him, saying, “I need to be  baptized by you, and you come to me?”

Mark 01:05 writes why John the Baptist baptized like this:
All the country of Judea and all those of Jerusalem went out to him. They were baptized by him in the Jordan river, confessing their sins.

Mark 01:09 says then “It happened in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized by John in the Jordan.”

Probably Matthew relied on the writings of Mark.

But the apostle John didnt follow Mark. John starts his Gospel 01:29  with Jesus coming to John the Baptist but the apostle John never writes that Jesus got baptized by John. Why?

.

The message

I have wondered for long time why Jesus wanted to be baptized by John according to Mark and Matthew. But as john never mention this, I begun wondering  if Jesus ever let himself be baptized.

Maybe after all, Jesus never thought he needed to make “a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins” as Mark 01:04 writes or to “confess his sins”)

.

History of paedobaptism

he Greek Bishop Gregory of Nazianz wrote in the second century: ” what do you have to say about those who are still children, and aware neither of loss nor of grace? Shall we baptize them too?’  Certainly [I respond], if there is any pressing danger. Better that they be sanctified unaware, than that they depart unsealed and uninitiated”. Read more inwww.catholic.com

Neonatal death  was very common 2000 years ago. Probably because of that, the Catholic church started  the tradition to baptice newborn babies as soon as possible. Mybe the church did it “to save these newborn from hell or from the original sin”.

Michael Servetus who was sentenced to death because of heresy, said about paedobaptism:

“It is an invention of the devil, an infernal falsity for the destruction of all Christianity.” ( Source: www.newworldencyclopedia.org/ )

I do not understand why he came to this strong conclusion.

.

conclusion

updating my article about Jesus baptism I experienced a paradigm shift and understood that I must change somewhat my story about the young Jesus.

Jesus may have baptized with John to rbe a good example for others and to repent his behaviour as a young child when he made his parents scared by not following them out of the temple.

What happens if you die and are not baptized as infant?

Catholic.com does not answer on that question but says that “you are not saved” if you are not baptized. Read more in https://www.catholic.com/tract/the-necessity-of-baptism 

The pope Benedict 16 said that as we choose to get childrens so we should baptize them as “with the baptism they are protected by God” Read more in the Italian site  http://www.santamelania.it

Catholic.com also says “Thus the early Church Fathers wrote in the Nicene Creed (A.D. 381), “We believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.” 

Only the Witnesses of Jehovah do not practice infant baptism. (read more in https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/baptism.php )

Paedobaptism

As the church regards Jesus as God and therefore his baaptising not a baptising for the sins, the church started the tradition of paedobaptism. Jesus baptism was like a paedobaptism despite his documented 30 years of age.

Despite what Jesus said in Matthew, maybe Jesus himself did errors as a small child and wanted therefore to get baptized for the sins made during his youth.

 

 

20200105 Logos

.

INTRODUCTION

Today at the Catholic Mass the John Gospel  (1:1 in English1:1-18 in Italian) is read. This text had a lot of influence on my thinking. What did John mean with the first verse “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God”.

John led me with time to write my illuministic Genesis where Jesus is with God planning the Creation that begun with Big Bang.

INDEX

.

The text

John 1:1 says: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things  were made through him. Without him was not anything made that has been made.”

John wrote in Greek so I advice to look at the Greek translation in biblehub.com/interlinear

Johns  Logos has been translated to Word in English,  Verbo in Italian, Verbum in Latin, Livets ord in Swedish

What did John mean with “Logos” I will dedicate time to share my research on “Logos”

.

The message

Most clerkmen I know about, say  that John is referring to Jesus, the Galilean Hebrew. But how do they interpret the sentence “was in the beginning with God”?

I never got an explication about this sentence, so I came myself to my own answer, that may of course, be wrong.

For me, Jesus soul was in the begining like an angel, planned to get down to Earth when it was the time for this.

Logos

In wiki I read that Logos (GreekΛόγοςlit. ”Word”, “Discourse”, or “Reason”)[1] is a name or title of Jesus Christ. That is of course acceptable and understandable but I still can not understand “was in the beginning with God”.

For me this image illustrate the word (Logos) at the beginning.

( Source: ih0.redbubble.net )

These are some of the rules that govern our Universe.

I have hard time to understand this math language, despite being a retired math teacher. Of course God could not have told this to Moses about 6000 years ago when the best math knowledge was Egyptian fractions and numbers without 0 (zero). So God gave Moses a simplified version in Hebrew today known as Genesis

Johns use of logos

I found a very good theological and philosophical discussion about Logos in www.bible-researcher.com. I share here some of the parts, I regard as most interesting.

Marvin Vincent suggests that the use of the word Logos by John “should be seen in the context of theological discourse in the milieu of Hellenistic Judaism (especially after Philo)”.

He further say that
“John used the term Logos with an intent to facilitate the passage from the current theories of his time (ed. Philo etc) to the pure gospel which he proclaimed.”

As Frederic Godet writes: “The word logos, in John, signifies, as in the whole Biblical text, word. In Philo, it signifies, as in the philosophical language of the Greeks, reason.” (Source: www.bible-researcher.com )

The author of www.bible-researcher.com/logos.html says however “that the contemporary Hellenistic understanding of logos in theological contexts (esp. in Philo) should not be discounted by those who wish to understand John’s meaning.”.

I tend to agree with this statement.

Like I will do, read more about logos in www.bible-researcher.com

.

conclusion

I agree with the author in bible-researcher who says

“The Hellenistic understanding
of Johns logos in theological contexts
should not be discounted”.

And who knows who spoked to John when he wrote his enygmatic Gospel.

Without any doubt, Johns prologue contains far deeper knowledge than any clerksmen let it look like. 

I have  not finished reading the valuable article above and I need more time to think about it.  

But for now, I feel that  my illuministic hypothesis as I shared in my previous 20180115 page and in  Illuministic Genesis , is still reasonable despite being heretic for fanatic Jews and Christians. 

 

Jesus message about miracles

.

INTRODUCTION

Today at Catholic Mass we read Matthew 11:02-11 )

This is one of the few parts were Jesus talks about his own miracles. He talks about his and Gods power, the power of doing miracles, supernatural events.

I wrote about miracles and my faith before in www.kinberg.net/wordpress/stellan/2019/01/20/jesus-miracles/

I do not rely on the miracle stories told by the evangelists but I rely on  their sharing of Jesus words especcially if you find these repeated by the other evangelists. The message of Matthew today about miracles is found also in Luke (see below).

You may argue that Luke may have copied Matthew but that you find the same words in Lukes Gospel is also a sign that the author of Luke must have thought that the Matthew gospel was reliable.

Whatever, when Jesus himself talks about miracles then I listen. His words make me believe Jesus could do miracles like I believe God can.

INDEX

.

The message

Matthew 11:02-11 says:

“11:2  Now when John heard in the prison the works of Christ,
he sent two of his disciples and said to him, “ Are you he who comes, or should we look for another?”
11:4 Jesus answered them, “Go and tell John the things
which you hear and see: the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed,  the deaf hear, the dead are raised up,  and the poor have good news preached to them. Blessed is he who finds no occasion for stumbling in me.”

Luke use almost the same words as Matthew in Matthew 11:04. Look at Luke 07:22:

07:22 Jesus answered them, “Go and tell John the things which you have seen and heard: that the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the
poor have good news preached to them. Blessed is he who finds no occasion for stumbling in me.”

.

conclusion

When Jesus said “Go and tell John the things
which you hear and see: the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed,  the deaf hear, the dead are raised up”